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hello

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and welcome to the inaugural edition of

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the point of convergence podcast

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let's start with a name why point of

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convergence why not something like

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ufology today well while they are a

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fascinating and worthy topic

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all on their own ufos and the phenomenon

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appear to be spokes within a larger

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mystery regarding the very nature of

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reality

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the overarching mystery includes not

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only sightings and contact with the

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intelligence behind ufos

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but related topics such as remote

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viewing near-death experiences

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out-of-body experiences channeling side

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contact

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encounters with apparitions

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hallucinogenic journeys

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interdimensionality and a variety of

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other manifestations featuring what has

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come to be known as high strangeness

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and while ufos and the phenomenon will

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be the focus of this podcast over time

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the interconnected nature of these

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various phenomena will inevitably lead

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us in a variety of directions

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as we seek to unravel and understand

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indeed if you study for long enough

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paying close enough

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attention with an open mind you'll find

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that these various topics

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inevitably bleed into each other and

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interestingly

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if you've been around for a while

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looking into this stuff you'll start

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noticing how some of the same players

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some of the same names keep showing up

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in what might at first look like

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disparate unrelated fields

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for instance hal puthoff worked

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alongside russell tarek

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under a cia contract no less

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investigating remote viewing

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while also being known for his work

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studying ufos and attempting to unlock

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enigmatic technologies such as

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anti-gravity with ttsa

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and dean raiden author of books such as

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entangled minds

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extrasensory experiences in a quantum

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reality and the conscious universe the

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scientific truth of psychic phenomena

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has done groundbreaking research into

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topics like psychokinesis

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but he also once worked for the bigelow

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foundation whose task was to research

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ufos

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regarding this bleed over effect i'm

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talking about consider the bizarre

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sometimes even absurd nature of ufo

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slash uap

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sightings and contact experiences for

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instance two people will perceive

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the same unidentified object in the sky

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but they'll see peculiarly different

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features about that object shapes can

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vary

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as can colors and size and of course

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also fairly common are cases where two

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people are looking in the same direction

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and only one of the two will see quote

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unquote what's there

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so clearly this is more than an observer

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perceiving objective stimuli

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the entire event both its inner and

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outer elements

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seem to be controlled by some external

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and up until now

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unidentified intelligence sometimes

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these seemingly unconnected fields

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blend into the very same experience for

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instance

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whitley striber recalls quote my

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experience

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with creatures that appeared to be alien

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was associated with a surprising side

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effect

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which was simultaneous contact with the

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dead who would appear along with the

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visitors and not as ghosts

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they would seem to be completely

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physical

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unquote and what does this suggest

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it suggests to me that these all point

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to some unifying principle

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to something fundamental to reality

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something that has

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thus far been missed and unaccounted for

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by the present societal operational

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paradigm of scientific materialism

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indeed these connected modalities seem

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to point to a reality where

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consciousness is not a byproduct of

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matter

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as a scientific materialistic

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establishment would have us believe

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but actually at the very root of

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existence consciousness is the base of

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reality from which everything else

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arises

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matter energy etc this is a working

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hypothesis anyway

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one will be pursuing investigating

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researching poking and prodding

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and testing here on the point of

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convergence podcast

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also consider this fascinating tidbit of

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information

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for many people that have both seen ufos

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and have had reported contact with

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non-human intelligence

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the majority of those people have also

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had other types of

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quote-unquote paranormal encounters

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including

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out-of-body experiences pre-cognition

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clairvoyance

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telepathy sightings of apparitions etc

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now is this because there's something

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unique about these people to begin with

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something genetically different about

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them perhaps is it because they've been

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changed by the contact experience itself

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is it because their filters have been

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blown wide open by one anomalous

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experience

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so that now they tend to notice details

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others often miss

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these are all fascinating possibilities

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to explore

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and we'll explore each and every one

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over time

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so with this apparent interconnectedness

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of these various phenomena in mind

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what should our approach be how should

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we study ufos in the phenomenon

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i'd argue our approach should be not to

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narrow our focus

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but rather to widen the scope observe

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the totality

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as objectively as possible and look for

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patterns

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john alexander has touched on the

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problems we run into when we don't look

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with a broad lens

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he writes one of the most fundamental

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errors in the study of various phenomena

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is to preordain boundaries while the

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data is still incomplete

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and will always remain so he continues

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additionally parameters of study often

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reflect the biases of the researchers

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and usually come from the established

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scientific

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or philosophical disciplines as

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represented by the investigator's

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background

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as it is said he continues if the only

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tool you have is a hammer then all

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problems look like a nail

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the same situation is prevalent in these

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investigations of phenomena

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if the investigator is a physicist the

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reports will be couched in terms of

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physics

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psychologists and psychiatrists are most

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likely to confer

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a mental diagnosis even when

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multi-disciplinary teams are formed

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while the response may be broader it

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will still be constrained by the limits

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and then you have the issue of dominant

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worldview dogma

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and that's really what it is dogma

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and to this john alexander adds relying

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on traditional educational experience

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in most western developed nations

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parameters are normally established

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based on a materialist worldview

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thus excluding other non-conventional

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options

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notice that keyword there excluding

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perturbation of time

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and issues such as precognition and

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retrocognition

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represent serious obstacles to a strict

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materialist worldview

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and are thus generally ignored by

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conventional science again the key word

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there being ignored

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not accounted for not made sense of

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ignored

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it continues of course recent research

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into retrocausation represents even

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greater problems for theoretical

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explanations

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so i'd say our task is to gather data

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examine the data

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from loosely held hypotheses

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evaluate strengths and weaknesses of the

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various hypotheses

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reformulate our hypotheses as the data

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demands it

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constantly question those loosely held

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assumptions

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don't ignore data don't exclude data

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so that's what we will be doing here

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we'll be looking into each of these

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topics

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and how they come together in a point of

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convergence

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hence the name of the podcast

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so let's take these ideas and take them

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out of the abstract

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and think practically how we might apply

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them to the

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traditional study known as ufology

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first of all i'd say making a decision

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about what will be

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covered included within ufology without

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first collecting the data and looking

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for patterns

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is highly misguided take for instance

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the insistence made by some that

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anything quote unquote woo

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will be ignored one really has to go

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into a corner and cover one's eyes to

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make that work

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don't they and let's be honest cutting

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edge science is going in so many

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directions formerly considered

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fringe and quote-unquote woo that it's

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hard to keep track

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entanglement non-locality superposition

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the implications of the double slit

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experiment

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and the witness observer effect etc

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now i understand the well-intentioned

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desire to only cover that which will

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garner the attention

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of the mainstream media and the

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scientific establishment

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but at the end of the day that just

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plays into their biases

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which is what we're trying to overcome

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and you end up having to effectively

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tell new lives to cover up the initial

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lies

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that's what happens when you ignore data

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when you exclude data

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sure maybe it's more about omissions and

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misdirections than outright lies

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but in the end it takes you in the same

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direction which is away from reality

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continuing with our question about what

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should be included versus excluded in

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the field of ufology

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consider that even the process of

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defining what a ufo

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is has proven problematic over time and

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that partly explains why

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in government circles in intelligent

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circles

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the term of choice has shifted to uap

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which stands for unidentified aerial

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phenomena

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after all these objects don't seem to

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really be flying

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as we conventionally understand that

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term they are not bird-like or

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aircraft-like

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in terms of how they generate thrust and

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use structures like wings to generate

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lift and stay aloft

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john alexander in the excellent

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compendium put together by the dr edgar

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mitchell free foundation

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in a book called beyond ufos the science

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of consciousness and contact

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with non-human intelligence takes us a

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step further

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provocatively asking what is a ufo

295
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on one end of the spectrum we have

296
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little balls of light sometimes referred

297
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to as orbs

298
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but then there are a variety of orbs

299
00:10:29,670 --> 00:10:28,000
many of which do not fit well within the

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ufo phenomenon

301
00:10:33,750 --> 00:10:31,920
on the other end of this equation there

302
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are hard physical craft that are

303
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determined to be more than a mile

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across worse there are thousands of

305
00:10:43,509 --> 00:10:41,600
variations in shapes and sizes reported

306
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sometimes they are visible and others

307
00:10:48,150 --> 00:10:45,440
not at times

308
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that applies to the same object there

309
00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:50,240
appear to be those objects that are seen

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by some people

311
00:10:54,550 --> 00:10:53,279
yet not visible to others standing

312
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nearby

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there are reports of craft that appear

314
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to change size based on the visual

315
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perspective of the observer

316
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that is from the exterior they seem to

317
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be one size

318
00:11:07,110 --> 00:11:05,760
but once entered convey the image of

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something much much

320
00:11:12,870 --> 00:11:10,240
larger while physically

321
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impossible in conventional reality that

322
00:11:17,110 --> 00:11:14,000
description has been

323
00:11:18,870 --> 00:11:17,120
reported by astute observers similarly

324
00:11:20,870 --> 00:11:18,880
there are conflicting reports from a

325
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variety of sensor systems

326
00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:23,680
some ufos are tracked on non-cooperative

327
00:11:27,990 --> 00:11:25,360
military type radars

328
00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:28,000
while others are not recorded at all

329
00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:29,920
response to acoustic and magnetic

330
00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:30,880
sensors vary

331
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:38,230
again regarding our question of what

332
00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:39,360
should be included

333
00:11:43,350 --> 00:11:41,600
and excluded in the field of ufology

334
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studies

335
00:11:47,829 --> 00:11:45,600
think about this even if we decide that

336
00:11:49,670 --> 00:11:47,839
only nuts and bolts quote-unquote cases

337
00:11:52,629 --> 00:11:49,680
will be pursued and analyzed

338
00:11:55,269 --> 00:11:52,639
one quickly finds that firstly this

339
00:11:57,430 --> 00:11:55,279
immediately and artificially removes

340
00:11:59,030 --> 00:11:57,440
huge segments of the data which will

341
00:12:01,350 --> 00:11:59,040
bias your results

342
00:12:02,310 --> 00:12:01,360
and that secondly the hard lines between

343
00:12:05,110 --> 00:12:02,320
quote physical

344
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or quote psychic organic or quote

345
00:12:11,030 --> 00:12:07,440
artificial slash technological

346
00:12:12,389 --> 00:12:11,040
quickly collapse jacques valet puts it

347
00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:12,399
this way

348
00:12:15,590 --> 00:12:14,160
my personal contention is that the

349
00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:15,600
phenomenon is a result of an

350
00:12:18,389 --> 00:12:16,560
intelligence

351
00:12:20,629 --> 00:12:18,399
that is technologically directed by an

352
00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:20,639
intelligence and that this intelligence

353
00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:22,800
is capable of manipulating space and

354
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:23,519
time

355
00:12:27,670 --> 00:12:26,480
in ways that we don't understand i think

356
00:12:28,949 --> 00:12:27,680
we are dealing with something that is

357
00:12:31,509 --> 00:12:28,959
both technological

358
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:31,519
and psychic and seems to be able to

359
00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:33,600
manipulate other dimensions

360
00:12:38,230 --> 00:12:35,600
this is neither wishful thinking nor

361
00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:38,240
personal speculation on my part it's a

362
00:12:42,069 --> 00:12:39,920
conclusion that comes from the

363
00:12:44,150 --> 00:12:42,079
interviewing critical witnesses and then

364
00:12:47,269 --> 00:12:44,160
listening to what they have to say

365
00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:47,279
unquote and j ellen heineck

366
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:48,880
who was the scientific advisor for

367
00:12:53,110 --> 00:12:50,800
several u.s air force studies

368
00:12:53,829 --> 00:12:53,120
including project sign grudge and blue

369
00:12:56,389 --> 00:12:53,839
book

370
00:12:57,190 --> 00:12:56,399
stated that quote i hold it entirely

371
00:12:59,030 --> 00:12:57,200
possible

372
00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:59,040
that a technology exists which

373
00:13:03,269 --> 00:13:00,720
encompasses both the physical

374
00:13:04,389 --> 00:13:03,279
and the psychic the material and the

375
00:13:06,949 --> 00:13:04,399
mental

376
00:13:08,310 --> 00:13:06,959
the ufo phenomenon is so strange and

377
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:08,320
foreign to our daily

378
00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:15,829
now the data and scenarios we've already

379
00:13:18,550 --> 00:13:16,639
discussed

380
00:13:20,470 --> 00:13:18,560
should demonstrate clearly the

381
00:13:22,310 --> 00:13:20,480
difficulty you run into when you try and

382
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:22,320
stick to a more traditional

383
00:13:25,829 --> 00:13:24,399
nuts and bolts approach when cataloging

384
00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:25,839
these events

385
00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:28,240
the intelligence behind ufos has clearly

386
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:29,040
shown it can

387
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:31,440
manipulate both external physical

388
00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:32,639
manifestation

389
00:13:35,829 --> 00:13:34,240
as well as the inner states of

390
00:13:38,790 --> 00:13:35,839
consciousness

391
00:13:40,949 --> 00:13:38,800
and perception of the observers and if

392
00:13:43,189 --> 00:13:40,959
they can manipulate the physical world

393
00:13:45,189 --> 00:13:43,199
after all as the saying goes for them

394
00:13:46,710 --> 00:13:45,199
reality is negotiable

395
00:13:48,389 --> 00:13:46,720
then the assumptions regarding the

396
00:13:50,710 --> 00:13:48,399
conscience of the natural world

397
00:13:53,269 --> 00:13:50,720
that are key to the scientific method

398
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:53,279
kind of go out the door

399
00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:55,120
i'm not saying we should refrain from

400
00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:57,120
from even trying to document these

401
00:14:00,230 --> 00:13:57,839
objects

402
00:14:01,269 --> 00:14:00,240
and entities in a traditional manner we

403
00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:01,279
should do that

404
00:14:06,310 --> 00:14:04,160
let's get soil samples and radar returns

405
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:06,320
let's make use of as much metadata as we

406
00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:07,279
can

407
00:14:11,189 --> 00:14:08,800
after all that's still what will

408
00:14:12,949 --> 00:14:11,199
primarily persuade an unbelieving public

409
00:14:14,389 --> 00:14:12,959
and the mainstream scientific

410
00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:14,399
establishment

411
00:14:18,550 --> 00:14:16,560
but we should likewise not be surprised

412
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:18,560
when we find holes in the data

413
00:14:22,150 --> 00:14:20,000
proving that a once thought to be

414
00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:22,160
bulletproof means of gathering evidence

415
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:25,920
is anything but that being the case

416
00:14:29,509 --> 00:14:28,560
let's continue to think outside the box

417
00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:29,519
let's be open

418
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:31,360
to gathering whatever kind of evidence

419
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:33,600
we can let the puzzle put itself

420
00:14:37,350 --> 00:14:35,440
together with as little human bias

421
00:14:40,790 --> 00:14:37,360
interjected into the process

422
00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:40,800
as possible and let's look at the areas

423
00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:42,880
of overlap between these various contact

424
00:14:46,389 --> 00:14:44,000
modalities

425
00:14:48,389 --> 00:14:46,399
traditional ufology being just one spoke

426
00:14:50,230 --> 00:14:48,399
in a much larger wheel

427
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:50,240
let's let that guide our formulation of

428
00:14:57,990 --> 00:14:53,120
hypotheses as we seek for some grand

429
00:14:59,990 --> 00:14:58,000
unifying theory of reality

430
00:15:02,069 --> 00:15:00,000
so there you have it these are the kinds

431
00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:02,079
of questions that are behind the impetus

432
00:15:06,069 --> 00:15:04,560
of the point of convergence podcast

433
00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:06,079
i hope you found this inaugural

434
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:07,680
introductory episode useful and

435
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:08,639
informative

436
00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:10,000
it gives you an idea of where we'll be

437
00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:12,160
going and now that we've laid out the

438
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:12,720
path

439
00:15:16,629 --> 00:15:14,639
i hope you'll tune in week to week as we

440
00:15:17,509 --> 00:15:16,639
seek to explore further and in greater

441
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:17,519
detail

442
00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:19,680
what i see as the most interesting and

443
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:21,040
compelling topic

444
00:15:26,629 --> 00:15:25,199
of our time and perhaps of human history

445
00:15:29,350 --> 00:15:26,639
moving forward this is what you can

446
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:29,360
expect i plan to have interviews with

447
00:15:33,189 --> 00:15:31,680
players in this field of inquiry

448
00:15:34,710 --> 00:15:33,199
we're going to discuss books on this

449
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:34,720
subject and i'll let you know ahead of

450
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:36,320
time what those books will be so you can

451
00:15:40,389 --> 00:15:38,880
get a hold of them yourself

452
00:15:42,629 --> 00:15:40,399
we're also going to discuss the

453
00:15:44,230 --> 00:15:42,639
essential question of authority

454
00:15:46,949 --> 00:15:44,240
whether you've admitted it to yourself

455
00:15:50,230 --> 00:15:46,959
or not you ascribe authorities somewhere

456
00:15:51,269 --> 00:15:50,240
to some group ideology or being for some

457
00:15:53,189 --> 00:15:51,279
people it's science

458
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:53,199
for others religion for others

459
00:15:57,430 --> 00:15:55,440
government and for still others

460
00:15:58,870 --> 00:15:57,440
personal experience and gut feeling are

461
00:16:00,550 --> 00:15:58,880
paramount

462
00:16:02,310 --> 00:16:00,560
and this is very often the case with the

463
00:16:05,749 --> 00:16:02,320
people we refer to as

464
00:16:07,829 --> 00:16:05,759
experiencers this question is essential

465
00:16:13,990 --> 00:16:07,839
again in terms of what gets included

466
00:16:17,269 --> 00:16:15,430
now just a little bit of information

467
00:16:20,069 --> 00:16:17,279
about me my background

468
00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:20,079
as it pertains to this subject i've been

469
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:20,720
interested

470
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:23,120
in this topic for decades it's so

471
00:16:25,990 --> 00:16:24,880
intriguing because it gets to the very

472
00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:26,000
heart of things

473
00:16:31,110 --> 00:16:28,800
what is this reality who are we where do

474
00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:31,120
we come from and where are we going

475
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:34,320
are we alone or are we perhaps far less

476
00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:36,240
alone than we can even realistically

477
00:16:39,470 --> 00:16:37,360
fathom

478
00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:39,480
not just in space and time but even

479
00:16:43,509 --> 00:16:41,600
interdimensionally

480
00:16:45,430 --> 00:16:43,519
speaking of ultimate questions i also

481
00:16:47,430 --> 00:16:45,440
have a background in religious studies

482
00:16:49,269 --> 00:16:47,440
and have studied ancient texts in both

483
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:49,279
their original cultural context

484
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:52,320
and original languages how non-human

485
00:16:55,269 --> 00:16:54,240
intelligence may have either directly or

486
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:55,279
indirectly

487
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:57,279
shape these narratives is a fascinating

488
00:17:01,430 --> 00:16:59,680
question to ponder and pursue

489
00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:01,440
in short i've always been fascinated

490
00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:02,880
with how people make sense of the

491
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:05,760
reality and define their purpose

492
00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:07,600
lastly an important point to share in

493
00:17:12,150 --> 00:17:09,280
light of our topic

494
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:12,160
i am what we call an experiencer i've

495
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:14,160
had multiple experiences that were as

496
00:17:18,949 --> 00:17:16,720
life-changing and life-defining

497
00:17:20,470 --> 00:17:18,959
as they were at least initially

498
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:20,480
completely bewildering and

499
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:22,240
discombobulating

500
00:17:25,669 --> 00:17:23,760
but we'll get to those experiences in

501
00:17:27,909 --> 00:17:25,679
due time

502
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:27,919
so why a podcast why not just keep

503
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:30,000
interacting via social media as i have

504
00:17:33,990 --> 00:17:32,400
been for the last several years

505
00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:34,000
well i think we need a space for

506
00:17:38,950 --> 00:17:36,320
sophisticated nuanced discussion

507
00:17:40,630 --> 00:17:38,960
a discussion that takes some time we

508
00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:40,640
need to dialogue for a while

509
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:42,559
building up a shared vocabulary and

510
00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:43,760
common palette

511
00:17:51,830 --> 00:17:45,520
so that we can communicate deeply and

512
00:17:55,590 --> 00:17:53,990
now i mentioned that when we cover books

513
00:17:57,190 --> 00:17:55,600
i'd give you the heads up so you can

514
00:17:59,909 --> 00:17:57,200
look into the book ahead of time

515
00:18:01,430 --> 00:17:59,919
maybe see how you feel about it well

516
00:18:03,669 --> 00:18:01,440
next week we'll be diving into

517
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:03,679
such a book we'll be looking at richard

518
00:18:07,350 --> 00:18:04,880
dolan's latest book

519
00:18:10,230 --> 00:18:07,360
titled the alien agendas a speculative

520
00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:10,240
analysis of those visiting earth

521
00:18:13,350 --> 00:18:12,080
this is a fascinating book that puts to

522
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:13,360
very good use

523
00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:15,520
richard's decades of dedicated carefully

524
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:17,200
cataloged research within the field of

525
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:18,480
ufology

526
00:18:22,789 --> 00:18:19,919
there's some things i really liked about

527
00:18:24,150 --> 00:18:22,799
this book some things i would question

528
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:24,160
and i'm curious how you feel about it

529
00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:25,440
too so if you can get a hold of that

530
00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:26,320
book do so

531
00:18:31,510 --> 00:18:28,160
but either way i hope you tune in next

532
00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:31,520
week as we dive into that book

533
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:33,200
so that's about it for now i hope you've

534
00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:34,640
enjoyed the podcast and hope you'll

535
00:18:38,070 --> 00:18:36,480
return next time

536
00:18:40,549 --> 00:18:38,080
from deep in the blue ridge mountains of

537
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:40,559
north carolina this is exo academian